Dear Staff Brethren,
We have become aware of a forum on the Internet that is being operated
by some of the brethren. This forum is for “members only� and was intended
to be an encouragement to one another in their spiritual life. As some of us
have been monitoring the discussions, it has caused us to have serious
concerns. We really question if the use of the Internet for something like this
would have support of the church. We are coming to you because it is our
understanding that you would have one or more member(s) from your
congregation who are on this forum.
Some of the reasons for our concern are:
1) Permission to use the Internet was initially given for business; at first
permission was given reluctantly for those who could no longer
operate without it. It was never intended to be for entertainment or
personal enjoyment. It appears there is a degree of using the forum for
fellowship and enjoyment, doing something a little risky unbeknownst
to others, and enjoyment in being online. Could the time these
brethren spend on the discussion forum be spent more profitably with
their families? Are they being deprived of time that should really be
spent with the family?
2) Handles are used by some of the brethren on the forum instead of real
names. Why do they prefer the anonymity? Why not always use full
names? Does this open the door to say things they would not say at
home in their own congregation? Would they be open about the forum
and their participation with their home ministers or revival ministers?
Have they discussed this with you? If not, why not? The need for
shielding means something. What does it mean?
3) Why not share and seek fellowship and share our concerns with our
own brethren at home who know us? Why is it easier to share at a
distance? This online forum facilitates a gathering of people who
think alike without knowing each other well enough to see the needs
in each other’s lives.
4) There is a shallowness that is coming from quite a few of the posts.
Some of the comments on the discussion forum reflect questions
about the church, the ministry, or church discipline, and there is an
apparent lack of depth in conviction. At the same time some of these
brethren consider themselves spiritual brethren in their congregations.
Will God bless this forum, and will it advance true spirituality? It
seems to us like there has rather been a deterioration in some of the
brethren with a critical and faultfinding spirit against the church. As
we all know, this can be fertile ground for deception, and we wonder
if there has already been some of this.
We have felt to share this concern with you, our fellow staff brethren,
that the church may remain pure and our brethren can prosper in their
Christian lives. We know it will be a matter of concern to you and you will
know the best way to share and help in a gentle way. We have no objection
to your sharing the above points with the brethren who may be involved.
It should be noted that the forum seems to have 20-30 members. We have
not been able to identify all of them, but we are sending this letter to all the
congregations where it is known that there is participation. Not all of the
discussion group members have been equally active, and we have not
noticed any contribution from several of the members. However, some of the
brethren who are part of the discussion forum have been quite involved. The
topics under discussion have ranged from inspirations of various ones to
discussion threads on church discipline, the authority of the church,
technology, and fellowship. Not all of the discussions have been critical, but
some of the discussions show a propensity for independent thinking that
questions rather than accepts. Some of the comments on the forum leave us
with questions about the spirit behind the contribution. We observe that the
members show a varying degree of confidence in the church, and one of our
concerns is that it seems they are picking up new members.
Yours in Christ,
The Technology Committee
VOX POPULI 
The Beating of the Sheep? I think I hear the Bleating of the Sheep. This is sordid.
This letter is authentic.
Thanks for that input.
Brother Hiram will have to respond to this one in detail. Let us take a closer look at the message contained in this letter…..
“1) Permission to use the Internet was initially given for business; at first
permission was given reluctantly for those who could no longer
operate without it. It was never intended to be for entertainment or
personal enjoyment. It appears there is a degree of using the forum for
fellowship and enjoyment, doing something a little risky unbeknownst
to others, and enjoyment in being online. Could the time these
brethren spend on the discussion forum be spent more profitably with
their families? Are they being deprived of time that should really be
spent with the family?”
This first paragraph is very revealing. First of all, the words “permission to use the internet.” Who authorizes grown men and women to use the internet, or forbids them from doing it? This is not a comment as to whether the internet is profitable or not, it is a matter of grown men and women being under this kind of control and being told what they can and cannot do. By a “tech committee,” no less. When did it become the business of church leaders to decide how a brother should spend his spare time. If he wishes to loll the afternoon away in a hammock, surf the internet or study the Bible, it is his business. It might be or might not be profitable, but a grown man should be allowed to make these choices for himself and his family. The seeds he sows are the fruit he will reap in his life, It is his business. This reeks of Gestapo-like control.
Point 2:
“2) Handles are used by some of the brethren on the forum instead of real
names. Why do they prefer the anonymity? Why not always use full
names? Does this open the door to say things they would not say at
home in their own congregation? Would they be open about the forum
and their participation with their home ministers or revival ministers?
Have they discussed this with you? If not, why not? The need for
shielding means something. What does it mean?”
Indeed, the relevant question is “Why are they concealing their identities, and why are they afraid to speak up in their own congregations?” As was mentioned on another thread, they would be better off to be a convicted pedophile than one who questiions. The final question in point no. 2 is “The need for shielding means something….what does it mean?” Do they even need to ask? It means the sheep fear the shepherds. Sad but true. Did anyone fear Jesus? I don’t recall reading about it in the Bible. If anyone was not inclined to follow him, he shook his head and let them go. He gave them their free choice whether or not to accept him and be his friend. What would he think of ministers who beat the sheep?
I think they answer their own question. Why are “handles” used? Well this forum was betrayed by one of the members from what I have heard, and when identities were revealed, the thing that they had feared happened. Discipline.
We received an email from someone stating that this forum was infiltrated by a certain brother, who was apparently planted there for the purpose of betraying his brothers. Quite sad. If we are not mistaken, he was subsequently awarded with an appointment to the ministry. Can anyone confirm or deny this? What are the implications of a minister who has no compunction about deceiving his brethren as to his true intentions, and then exposing them to the authorities….Sad indeed.
Point # 3:
“3) Why not share and seek fellowship and share our concerns with our
own brethren at home who know us? Why is it easier to share at a
distance? This online forum facilitates a gathering of people who
think alike without knowing each other well enough to see the needs
in each other’s lives.”
When “we seek and share fellowship and share our concerns with our own brothers who know us” we are limited to what we know is safe to say, and we know that we must confess the status quo. What is wrong with friends communicating with one another about questions they have, convictions they have….Who are these men to comment on the needs in someone else’s life. The needs they refer to are no doubt a weakness when being questioned about the One True Church teaching. Once again, the point is made, why is it the concern of the elders how grown men spend their time, who they talk to, and what they say? I believe the focus has been on all the wrong things. Grown men who are monitored and stunted in this way will become less of a man and will have a seething anger deep within. They will mouth the words that will help them to have the favor of the ministers, all the while they feel themselves dying a little more inside. This is all wrong.
Point #4
“4) There is a shallowness that is coming from quite a few of the posts.
Some of the comments on the discussion forum reflect questions
about the church, the ministry, or church discipline, and there is an
apparent lack of depth in conviction. At the same time some of these
brethren consider themselves spiritual brethren in their congregations.
Will God bless this forum, and will it advance true spirituality? It
seems to us like there has rather been a deterioration in some of the
brethren with a critical and faultfinding spirit against the church. As
we all know, this can be fertile ground for deception, and we wonder
if there has already been some of this.”
The tech committee deems the content of the postings on the now-defunct forum (or so we are led to believe…defunct or not, who can really tell?) to be shallow. Friends, have you read the letter penned by the tech committee? Does this strike you as having depth or spiritual value? Let’s ask a few questions here….
WHAT IS WRONG WITH HAVING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CHURCH? The only reason the tech committee and their henchmen the Holdeman ministers would hate questions is because there are no answers.
WHAT IF SOME OF THESE BRETHREN CONSIDER THEMSELVES SPIRITUAL IN THEIR OWN CONGREGATIONS??? Whose job is it to say they are not? What is this judgment of their spirituality based on? The fact that they have a brain and eyes to see and they question? A critical and faultfinding spirit against the church? Oh my, Hitler is alive and well.There is something wrong when a regime cannot be questioned. When the citizens must meet in secret, conceal the fact that they know one another, be sure to never reveal their true thoughts or feelings…..what does this remind us of? When the authorities are feared and judgment is feared? Brothers and sisters, God never meant us to be under the thumb of a power hungry tyrant. Jesus Christ is gentle, meek and kind. If we fail him he gently picks us up. He does not spy on us, lie in wait for us, betray us or threaten us. Something is wrong with this picture.
Final paragraph….
We have felt to share this concern with you, our fellow staff brethren,
that the church may remain pure and our brethren can prosper in their
Christian lives. We know it will be a matter of concern to you and you will
know the best way to share and help in a gentle way. We have no objection
to your sharing the above points with the brethren who may be involved.
It should be noted that the forum seems to have 20-30 members. We have
not been able to identify all of them, but we are sending this letter to all the
congregations where it is known that there is participation. Not all of the
discussion group members have been equally active, and we have not
noticed any contribution from several of the members. However, some of the
brethren who are part of the discussion forum have been quite involved. The
topics under discussion have ranged from inspirations of various ones to
discussion threads on church discipline, the authority of the church,
technology, and fellowship. Not all of the discussions have been critical, but
some of the discussions show a propensity for independent thinking that
questions rather than accepts. Some of the comments on the forum leave us
with questions about the spirit behind the contribution. We observe that the
members show a varying degree of confidence in the church, and one of our
concerns is that it seems they are picking up new members.
Yours in Christ,
The Technology Committee”
This is an absolutely shocking example of schoolyard bullying. Tattling. “We know it will be a matter of concern to you…” Pious and self righteous cloak for malicious gossip… Keeping the church pure? The myth that the Holdeman church disciplines in order to keep itself pure is still believed by many. It is a matter of control. If you disagree, you are OUT. “We know you will know the best way to help in a gentle way.” This should only deceive those who have been deaf dumb and blind since birth. There is not much gentleness inside the velvet glove. It is true that the iron claws are masked with tender words and gentle concern, but the results of the inquisition are anything but gentle.
“some of the discussions show a propensity for independent thinking that
questions rather than accepts.” What could be more blatant? Independent thinking is forbidden and there is a call for a member who accepts without questioning. Brethren, would this be you? Are you afraid to question? Do you blindly accept? Have you ever tried to engage in independent thinking? If not, Brother Hiram and his friends would suggest that you give it a try.
“We observe that the members show a varying degree of confidence in the church, and one of our concerns is that it seems they are picking up new members.”
If anyone has ever been looking for proof, here it is. The main concern when judging you as a member is your degree of confidence in the church. Not faith in Jesus Christ, not even good works. Not have you been forgiven for your sins, or are you having victory in the areas of lust and greed, hatred and bad temper, but do you have confidence in the church? There is a concern that this forum was picking up new members. Apparently the resistance was smashed down, the dissenters were apprehended and given the fear treatment. We have to ask the question, “Where are they today” Did the movement burrow in further underground, or was all free thinking eradicated? Did men become less manly? Did they give up their right to think and see and feel? May God have mercy on all concerned…..
Brother Hiram
This is a classic example of the control that the Holdeman Church uses. I’ve been hearing the beating/bleating of the sheep for awhile now. Just like a person that gets physically abused, finally the abused “die.” But can I hope that some day the truth will prevail?
Yes my friend, the news is good. The good ship Holdeman is nearly sunk. There are reports that even the leaders don’t have much hope for its future. I believe that there are men out there who are fighting for freedom. There is always a cost, but if you are willing, you can know the fullness of Gods love without measure. And without a preacher holding that great big stick over you.
In all fairness it should be published here that this letter was largely the work of a single member of the TC. Several other members of the TC set up a conference call with some of the brethren involved in the forum and left a very sincere apology and clearing. It was not the intent of the letter to cause discipline, but the ministry in the various congregations over reacted and some mistakes were made. It is also a fact that the brother you mentioned was not planted by the TC. He was invited by a participant into the forum. Ultimately his presence caused the demise of the forum. As my “handle” states I am also hoping for changes in the CGCM and have been reading the articles of this forum. For the record I feel that the tenor of this forum is negative and divisive and will not bring about real Holy Spirit led change.I loathe negitave advertising in politics and business and this forum only blasts negative propoganda and offers NO viable solutions.
This blog may be “negative” to some, but the ones that I know have read it, say that it’s the truth. I personally think it’s tame compared to some of the other sites out there. I’m all about solutions. Please offer them.
Appreciate your comment, lotsaquestions. I feel that hopingforchange is somewhat hard on us when he mentions us “blasting negative propaganda.” Many others are telling us they appreciate that we are saying what they have been thinking. In one way, I must say that anyone who sits there and complains because we do not offer “viable solutions” is being rather shallow. Ultimately it is up to all of us to find our own solution. If we require someone to write us a guide book and point the way, we are still weak. It is in finding our own answers and carving our own path that we find our strength. I don’t think it is possible to write a solution that will replace the one already activated and ask thousands of members to slip into that one with ease. Do people really require “solutions?” Even so, we are hoping that there will be those who will do some teaching and bring encouragement. Thanks to all who participate here.
I have a few questions hopingforchange…was this letter read in front of your congregation? Did the tech committee effectively shut down the forum that is mentioned in this letter? Did one member of the tech committee write and send this completely without the knowledge of the rest of the committee? I can agree somewhat with what you are saying, but the contents of the letter still do express the attitude of the tech committee and the Holdeman ministers, correct? You were not given the freedom to continue to communicate with one another, were you?
I can appreciate the fact that you feel that there is a negative tone to our blog. (It is not a forum. It is a blog that has articles and allows comments.) I wonder what you think would be a better approach. Please feel free to share your thoughts. Surely you have some. We are open to thoughts from church members.
If the internet is for business only and “never intended to be for entertainment or
personal enjoyment” why are ministers and deacons sending and/or forwarding music, videos and pictures? We were called in to a staff visit because they had become aware that I allowed our small children to watch some YouTube videos. They told me we needed a “clearer vision” of internet usage. Imagine my dismay and total shock when I found out that their own children had watched the same things. So, the things I was asked to find a conviction on in our home, were allowed in their own homes. Double standard or what????
Also the comment “It appears there is a degree of using the forum for fellowship and enjoyment” is a crafty way to cast doubt on anyone who has ever enjoyed the weekly email from Aunt Martha. The really BIG question here is, WHY ARE MISSIONARIES SKYPING WITH GRAMPS AND GRAMS back home?? Isn’t that fellowship and enjoyment? I want some explanations from ordained brethren as to how we are supposed to put this into practice in the laity’s homes, but ordained brethren and missionaries fall under a different code from God.
Also, if that letter wasn’t intended to be disciplinary, WHY WAS IT??? I know that members WERE disciplined for their participation. If there was a letter of apology, I wonder why that letter of admission isn’t published as was this one? And, then, I’d like to hear from those that were disciplined and whether they received a formal apology. Were the charges dropped and your good standing in the church restored? If the tech committee had been concerned about having the heart of a shepherd, they would have listened very carefully to what the sheep had to say. Instead they used it to beat the sheep, and offended those who were searching for truth. Do you know what the Bible says about those that offend? (I do.)
I recommend installing the internet filter that is available to all for free from God, our Saviour. God is powerful and has our best interest in mind, more so than any tech committee. Let’s use our brains that God gave us and rise above the human filter and move to a pure heart and mind filter.
“hopingforchange” states that this site “blasts negative propoganda”. I believe that is the only way change CAN occur. This site appears to be trimming the trees surrounding our church so that the truth can be visible.
Way to go, sister! Keep on speaking out.
Another interesting observation is that our church web site now offers the daily reading delivered to your email box. THIS IS BUSINESS??? Can a staff member please explain this to my feeble grade 8 brain? A religious person (not of our people) once said the internet was the Mark of The Beast. Maybe it will be the downfall of our church????
Biggest bunch of hooey i ever read
Jeremiah 23:1-40 KJV Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. (2) Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. (3) And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. (4) And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. (5) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (7) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; (8) But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. (9) Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness. (10) For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right. (11) For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD. (12) Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD. (13) And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err. (14) I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. (15) Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. (16) Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. (17) They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. (18) For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? (19) Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. (20) The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly. (21) I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. (22) But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. (23) Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? (24) Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. (25) I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. (26) How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; (27) Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. (28) The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. (29) Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? (30) Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. (31) Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. (32) Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD. (33) And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD. (34) And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house. (35) Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the LORD answered? and, What hath the LORD spoken? (36) And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man’s word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God. (37) Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the LORD answered thee? and, What hath the LORD spoken? (38) But since ye say, The burden of the LORD; therefore thus saith the LORD; Because ye say this word, The burden of the LORD, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the LORD; (39) Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence: (40) And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.
Read the handwriting on the wall Tech Committee, ALL Preachers, Deacons and anyone else that might DARE QUESTION GOD !!!!!!
In rethinking my statement “might DARE QUESTION GOD” I see a certain error in it that I would like to have us think about.
It is not wrong to question God and I believe the thinking stems from the thinking that there are those who believe it is wrong to question “the church”. I believe God welcomes our questions in much the same way that a father is happy to answer a childs question so that the child may learn and understand. When men are offended at someone questioning their beliefs that is where the problem comes in. Unlike us as earthly fathers our heavenly Father does not grow weary with our often incessent questions. It is not wrong to question God neither is it wrong to question “church doctrines and teachings” We notice in the bible that those who did so are commended; Acts 17:10-11 KJV And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. (11) ” These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” We are to receive the Word of God with all readiness of mind…not the word of men.
My apology for the error in my statement. ~Chris
I was just reading some of the beginning posts on here for the first time and if I am not mistaken, that letter was sent to the congregations at least 4 or 5 years ago. I believe it went around about the time that we quit attending the H church full time 5 years ago. The forum refered to was the COG forum run by Fred Mclaren. There was some serious damage done at that time. To compound the situation, there were a number of H members that had created a separate forum on the same platform as the COG that was for members only and that was the one that really got bombed and the people that got into the most trouble. However make no mistake, the tech committee is still keeping a very close eye on any type of open forum that members can post on and especially those that allow people to use pseudonyms.
Wonderful, I hope the tech committee is reading this!!
Well Adopted Heart, I am wondering what you mean when you say they are keeping a close eye on any forum or blog that allow people to use pseudonyms. I wonder why the people don’t rise up in rebellion against such a repressive regime. They might as well be living in North Korea. Think about it, there is barbed wire and armed guards in towers keeping them from crossing over. Do they understand that they are being treated like babies, and stupid babies at that? I’m pretty angry when I consider they way the sheep are beaten and abused. Why can’t people have discussions, express their point of view and all be happy. To be honest, I have had word that the Holdeman ministers have sent out a posse, so to speak, to smoke out brother Hiram. What are they going to do, hack into my blog? Hack into my email? Is this the kind of people they are? Shall we call them the Nazis, the Gestapo? Would they really be unprincipled enough to invade my privacy? I understand some of them are computer geeks and no doubt have the ability to do a few things, but do they really think I am this stupid, that I would leave myself open too this type of penetration? My email is secured by double passwords and a number code, maybe they can get past it, I don’t know. If they hack into the blog, all they will find out is how many people are viewing, but not who they are. If they get into my email there is nothing there to identify me, do they really think I post from my actual IP address? Would they really gun me down? These thoughts are incredible to me. And yet, somewhat unnerving. Do they really care? Is Hiram (and company) really that much of a threat? Because it is Hiram and company. Do they think there is only one dissident behind this? They could find one and still not dismantle the network. Good luck to you, tech committee. Just wait til the day I hear that a church member has been disciplined for reading Hiram. And you can be sure that if it happens I will hear. From what I have seen, no one who emails me is identifiable to me unless they don’t care who knows. So anyone who is posting here does not need to fear exposure. Create a fake email address if you are worried, but if they think they can find me they need to think again. I have set up a number of safe guards, anticipating their minions coming after me. Their time would be much better occupied preaching the gospel and saving souls. I’m ashamed of myself for ranting, but this is what has driven me to blog, to speak out. How dare they control and beat the poor sheep. The Bible says Feed my sheep, not clobber my sheep.