I can see where this lineage thing had to be hammered on at great length…it is the main nail in the lid on the Holdeman church. Whenever a young man might feel like rising up in disagreement, the lineage rears it’s monstrous head. Let’s say a young un-ordained fellow decides to separate. Deep in his heart he does not respect the path that John Holdeman took, that of receiving his ordination from God instead of the way the Bible commands, by the laying on of hands. So he says to himself, oh, where do I go from here? Let’s see, I am not ordained, therefore, I cannot baptize or ordain others. Let’s see, that means I have to pull an ordained brother away from the church to go with me, so he can carry on the sacred lineage of baptizing and ordaining. He thinks about it for a while and he realizes he does not have one single possibility in mind. He can’t imagine one single ordained brother who would separate and go with him, even if they were of exactly the same mind. hmmmmm, then where to get this coveted ordination? Perhaps he could jump the lineage just a bit and get it from some other anabaptist type preacher, but this defeats the whole purpose of believing in the lineage…it must be true! Like breeding champion Rottweilers, or something. The minute you inject an inferior bloodline, the whole thing is for naught. Well, maybe he could just do away with the lineage, find a nice minister somewhere who can lay hands on him, but then what of the followers he hopes to have, those he must have! He wants members of his church to go with him, that is the whole purpose of separating! If none of them go along with him, he may as well stay where he is, swallow his vomit and go on. So he jams it all back down and sits up straight in the pews, all the while boiling inside. I wonder how many times this pattern has been played out?

Let us remember that in previous posts I have already cast great doubt on the lineage. If the lineage is true, then he has no options. He is held under the lead thumb of the leaders and the specter of the “CHURCH.” It owns him body and soul. He has no power to think for himself, no voice with which to speak. He wants to be a man, but more often than not he finds himself crossing his legs like a woman and cowering. Where is the manly power that once surged within him? Dwindled to a mere wisp. This is very frustrating, especially in light of the fact that his wife is very enthralled with her social life and the approval of her parents, and doesn’t support his radical urges. Another one bites the dust. One more man retires.

The other option is to do away with the lineage and start afresh, just the brother and God. He ponders the possibility of finding a true Christian out there somewhere with whom he could unite. His entire life has been spent fearing and dreading all of the “so-called” Christians in the world. He doesn’t really believe that anyone else in the world is saved. Doubting that the Holdemans are the one true church is not the same as believing that other people are saved. This presents a very distressing dilemma. I am not going to outline the solution to his dilemma right here. But one fact remains; if the lineage is not true, if it cannot be proven, if in fact it is not valid, then everything changes. Where does a man go from here? I will leave it to the man to find out.

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11 Responses to Lineage??

  1. Godfather says:

    There is the fear…always the fear……

  2. lotsaquestions says:

    The fear is real…the rejection from everything you have ever known…rejection from your own spouse and family…the damage you do to all the ones around you. They think you are WRONG!!!
    I know people who go mental. And fifty times worse for a woman. Any comments?

    • And of course, lotsaquestions, we could almost believe that they drive people crazy on purpose. Think about how that discourages anyone else from doing the same thing. If someone who leaves goes crazy, everyone can say, see there, she was crazy, that’s why she doubted. They can totally discredit you. If you go crazy they can say, that’s what happens to people who doubt the church! Don’t be too afraid though. The day is coming when freedom will be available. This power is being broken.

  3. Godfather says:

    My only comment is, “if there is so much fear, how can it be right?”

  4. cagedbutterfly says:

    It seems that it is easier for a man to leave than a woman. I’ve often wondered why. Is it because the women are suppressed and really don’t have much of a voice in the church or because the changes are so apparent? Comments?

    • catalyst says:

      I have noticed though that women are more likely to suffer in silence and feel hopelessly trapped than men are. I suppose its cause if a man wants to leave he just does it. If a woman is unhappy with the church and her husband doesn’t share her feelings, she doesn’t have much choice. Usually she has to hide her feelings even from her husband. If there was a secret poll taken to find out how many women in the church are secretly unhappy, I wonder what the results would show???

  5. I think it is both of the reasons you mentioned, but I also think it is the fact that women have fewer social connections outside of the church, and they are more oriented towards social connections. A woman is more concerned for her children, more fearful, perhaps, and there is of course the issue of the social integration and education if there are children. Women are by nature more inclined towards the safety and control of the church. It helps keep them secure. It takes a strong and deeply spiritual woman to brave the seas of X Holdemanism. But that does not mean it cannot be done. God is looking for brave and fearless men and women.

  6. cagedbutterfly says:

    There are many women that are unhappy. I think women are much more perceptive to the errors in what they hear. The authority of the ministers trump the authority of the husband. They also have the last say with youth still living at home. It is not the churches responsibility to raise children. God gave them parents. These issues are real. Hoping to hear more.

  7. caged butterfly, in response to your comments, I have to say that it is often the men who are urged to stand up and be real men. What if a woman has the same responsibility? What if the time has come in your life where you need to be completely honest and be willing to accept whatever consequences there might be in order to be true to yourself and God? What if you are being harassed and you are feeling afraid…have you ever considered the possibility that God has the same requirements of you that he has of a man? Stand up and speak the truth. Refuse to let anyone bully you spiritually. If the ministers are making demands on you that make no sense, refuse to cower in front of them. Tell them what is on your heart, no matter what the cost. This is the stance that they pretend to have admired in the martyrs of medieval times. If they then wish to lop off your head, they are making themselves no different than the church of Rom which persecuted men and women who spoke the truth that God had placed in thier heart. If people would suddenly stand up and refuse to be bullied, there would be a crisis in the Holdeman church. I know that the ministers have a habit of bullying women, right in front of their husbands, and the man sits by and permits it. He permits another man to come into his home and bully his woman. This is wrong. What do they have that people want so badly that they will tolerate this? It certainly is not the kernel of true salvation. On the day that true salvation is more important to you than your position in this realm, more important than sitting at a table to eat, more important than free social access in their world, God will heap his blessings upon you. He will empower you to speak, to stand, and to be gloriously victorious. Until that time, you will live under oppression, fear and mental distress. It is time for their power over women to be broken. I encourage all oppressed men and women to stand up and speak.

    • lotsaquestions says:

      This is under lineage, probably the wrong place to comment but since we have the issue of Holdeman women here and the abuse issue needing to be exposed, I will say this: Holdeman women are abused in some ways. Like cagedbutterfly says, the ministers really do ursurp their authority over her husband and dictate what they consider is legal for her or not. This is done in upper room visits with 5-8 ministers (MEN) present.Of course, husband is there but that doesn’t help one bit with the comfort zone. VERY intimidating and a classic feeling of being coerced into submission. Women are sensitive beings and God made them perceptive to men’s moves. Many women put up with it, many dispise it and many are innocent enough they don’t catch on, just know they HATE being “called in”. And , the few that have the nerve to react to it get called into account. And think what a youth girl has to go through! This is abuse, and I have voiced it! No questions for now, just thoughts.

      • What kind of a man sits by and lets other men bully his wife? It all starts before a couple gets married….when it’s time for a young man to propose he sends the proposal through the preacher. The preacher is the one who gets to see her excitement, hear her answer first, and then often, he waits til he is good and ready to tell him. I’ve heard of preachers waiting a couple of weeks, going on revivals or whatever, having the girl’s answer and just not caring enough to tell the boy, or maybe even taking pleasure in making him wait. Sometimes the boy isn’t’ sure what the answer will be and he waits on pins and needles. while the preacher holds his life in his hands. I know of one preacher who called the boy and teased him a while, said wellllll, what do you think she said…….and the boy’s heart was in his shoes, he was sure she had said no….then the preacher laughed like a maniac and said no, she said yes…He got a lot of fun out of that one…

        This is not accidental. In this way the ministers insert themselves between husband and wife from day one. The husband always knows that he has second place in her life, it’s almost as though the preachers are a co-husband. The husband does not have the sovereign right over his own home, his own wife and children. The preacher is always there, watching, commenting, smiling, but a threat. This is wrong, it is perverse, it is also wrong according to the Bible. The children grow up with the shadow of the preache rover their lives. When they are adult, they expect nothing more and nothing less than what they get. Three people in a marriage. Men stand up and take back your families!

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